Man this no follow crap really has people making serious mistakes in their marketing. Despite the fact that “no follow” means absolutely SQUAT to anyone trying to market their website, people are not dropping comments and engaging in conversations the way they should.
In my market, where the most damage has been done with false information and hyper-focus on follow vs. no follow links, people just aren’t commenting like they were this time last year.
This not only leads to less traffic for them, but it also makes it harder for bloggers like me to know what content is helping the most. The no follow issue, and the way people are being told outright to only get links that are “followed” by Google is seriously destroying the intent and purpose of a healthy blog community.
The Facts About No Follow
It means nothing to you as a marketer. Don’t even LOOK at someone’s source code to see if they are using it or not. It is the biggest waste of time and energy ever propagated by the search community in the history of search engine marketing.
The no follow scare has done more to harm the way publishers and readers interact than any other issue. The bottom line is it doesn’t matter ONE LICK if the comment you are about to leave on a blog is going to be “followed” by Google or not.
Nathan Anderson, a prominent search engine expert, said some interesting things to back me up on this in his Webside Chat recently.
The Rules of Linking
- You link to get traffic. Period.
- You comment and engage to get traffic.
- Whatever Google wants to do with any given link is their problem, not yours.
- To slow the link building process for your site because you are checking every site you’d interact with for the no follow tag is a mortal sin in the link building business. You are shooting yourself right in the foot by paying any attention at all to links other than how much potential direct traffic they can send you.
- You WILL get links that are important to Google if you just work in your niche naturally. Comment on blogs for the value of the conversation and the interest among the readers of those blogs. Comment for traffic and community, not link juice for Google.
- When you link without being concerned about Google, you will find your Google rankings increasing. Many of the link you get WILL be followed and credit by Google. You don’t have to shut down your marketing by getting links from sites with no traffic just because they have follow links!
Bottom Line: Do you want traffic? Or links from a bunch of splogs that happen to have no follow turned off?
I’m in the game for traffic. I assume everyone here is. Little green lines of pagerank and a zillion “followed” links on dead sites do not make up a good marketing campaign focus. People doing that kind of marketing are right in step with some of the biggest spammers on the web setting up spam networks and putting meaningless links all over meaningless pages of meaningless content.
In the end, as you see with my site and rankings, you will have great listings in Google. The more you ignore what the SEO forums say about the follow no follow debate, the better your site is going to do in the engines. And you’ll get a lot of traffic you are missing by not commenting on blogs just because they haven’t turned off no follow yet.
For Bloggers…
Turn off any freakin’ no follow plugins you have. Pagerank leaking is and always has been massively overblown. We all fell for the no follow crap when it came out and it damaged us all in the bargain.
Whatever you’ve heard about the “dangers” of linking without attaching no follow to every single link is a lie, a scam, and should be ignored.
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Writer Dad 08.20.08 at 12:54 pm
I found you because of your article on Dosh Dosh, but wow, you are a source all on your own. Great job, I just subscribed.
Writer Dads last blog post..Just Pay Attention
social marketing 08.20.08 at 3:07 pm
Jack,
Anyone that comments just for SEO value has already shot themselves in the foot because if that is all they are doing, then the comment is probably of little value. They are not commenting because they are motivated by the subject, they are commenting for the SEO value.
I will tell you that commenting on dofollow blogs SEO has value. You can all see I know that. However, the link is like a link in a blog post. It ages and is of little value in as little as a day, just like blogsearch, you have a life span of as little as hours, depending on the topic.
I have left nofollow in place and that is my personal choice. However, comments are about interaction and I follow 30 blogs where I can ask questions of people like Andy Beard who will ALWAYS gets back to you and answers your questions or if you request something of him he will email you back, say no and tell you why. That was what initially got me following Andy, before I realized he was tops.
The relationships you can foster thru comments are probably some of the best results that can come from social marketing. I have pulled three guest blogger gigs from commenting very intelligently and thoroughly.
I have gotten sales from my participation on email delivery blogs. People have emailed me saying they bought because no matter where the went trying to solve their email problems, there was a Chris Lang comment.
Comments can bring all kinds of good things to you, SEO is just one and a minor one. Commenting just for SEO benefits? Well, it’s kind of like masturbation, it may not last long, it only does you good and you should be arrested for doing it in public.
social marketings last blog post..How to Create a Google Profile for Google Social Bookmarking
The Masked Millionaire 08.20.08 at 6:52 pm
My thought is this: I am way too busy, don’t have enough time, or I just plain do not care about no follow. I’ve read about it and then moved on.
I comment everywhere I go if I find the post interesting. I couldn’t tell you if no follow is on or off on any blog that I visit.
What I do know is that I get a lot of visitors from blogs where I left a comment.
They don’t call me The Masked Millionaire for nothing!!
Ok, they don’t call me The Masked Millionaire…
Jack Humphrey 08.20.08 at 8:24 pm
Thanks Writer Dad!
Great thoughts Chris!
Good attitude Masked!
Nick Stamoulis 08.20.08 at 8:36 pm
Could not agree more man. The NoFollow tag has truly messed up the blogging industry as people are far less motivated to comment. Granted you may get less generic comments your way, I’m sure there are less readers overall - which is never good for conversing with others in your industry and sharing info via these blogs…
Nick Stamouliss last blog post..Are SEO Friendly Themes Really Friendly?
Graphics Tablet Guru 08.21.08 at 5:53 am
This article was an eye-opener for me.. it hit a little too close to home because I think I’ve lost the frame of mind of adding value to my niche. The art of commenting is almost dead thanks to no follow and the common thinking behind it.
Is it possible that Google created more crap content on the web by introducing no follow to the masses? Hmm… methinks so.
Tribute Band Reviews 08.21.08 at 7:40 am
Jack, I can tell from reading this post that you are a bit wound up about this ‘no follow’ stuff and with good reason. Yours in one of only a handful of blogs that I ever comment on and I do that because the information is top drawer and pulls no punches. I’ve no idea whether this is ‘no follow’ or not and I absolutely do not care one bit. Great posts like this deserve feedback and I will continue to make comments no matter what.
John O’Hara
United Kingdom
Tribute Band Reviewss last blog post..Barry White Tribute Acts: Cleveland Walker
Jack Humphrey 08.21.08 at 8:18 am
John,
Not sure what set me off on this post now, but it must have been seeing someone talking about it in a forum or blog. Really can’t remember.
But if I see another crap piece of software being hustled that spiders for “follow” links only I’m going to go off again!
Jack Humphrey 08.21.08 at 8:21 am
“Is it possible that Google created more crap content on the web by introducing no follow to the masses? Hmm… methinks so.”
Excellent point. It’s true. Exactly the opposite of what Google even intended by the whole thing in the first place.
Just look at splogger, I mean Blogger.com.
Pasadena California Real Estate 08.21.08 at 10:34 am
Jack,
My old boss used to say “He who lies first is gospel” There are so many differing opinions out there on SEO and other tactics to market your blog, it is very confusing and you aren’t sure which direction to pursue.
One of the bloggers i have been reading informed everyone not to waste your time on “no comment” blogs. Thank you for exposiing the other side.
Nimic 08.21.08 at 10:37 am
I believe nofollow was designed to fight spam, but you’re right, I don’t think that it works… If I didn’t have a spam blocker filtering my comments, my blog would be complete full of crap — even though I’ve got nofollow on.
I think I’m going to experiment with shutting nofollow off, and see if things change for my sites comments. I’ll just keep doing what I do now, and delete any comments that are blatant promotions not designed to add to the conversation.
I do worry about SEO, probably because I’m a beginner and don’t know any better.
Nimics last blog post..Tyler Durden’s Guide To Fighting Consumerism
Jon 08.21.08 at 12:38 pm
It is just so much more fun to comment just for the sake of commenting. It all flows easier and the comments get written much faster. The time spent worrying about dofollow, nofollow, couldfollow, shouldfollow and didfollow could much better be spent leaving more comments in more interesting places.
Surfing, learning and participating is a much better path to be on. Do I really want to spend my time trying to figure out what to say on a whole lot of blogs that aren’t interesting? The real payoff seems to come from commenting on every decent post that I read or at least one post on every decent blog I read.
If I left a comment on every good post of Jack’s I wouldn’t have enough time to write for myself.
Nofollow or dofollow, I still moderate all comments and off the ones that do not add to the conversation or at least ask a legitimate question.
Laurel Bowen 08.21.08 at 3:16 pm
Wow! I don’t even know what “no follow” means (haven’t read SEO stuff since they stopped letting you register your site, lol) and I guess I am glad I didn’t bother with it. I just believe in participation. Do it, have fun, learn stuff, and good things will come to you in the end.
Laurel Bowens last blog post..Alone Again
Dave - The Confessions Guy 08.21.08 at 4:04 pm
G’day Jack and nice emotion - this seems to be something you have got a passion about.
Personally all I want is TARGETED TRAFFIC so the no-follow thing has never entered my equation. I need to comment to get others to come to my site - it’s that simple - BUT ONLY IF IT’S RELEVANT! and that’s the real point isn’t it?.
Keep up the great work - love the updates which let me choose which articles I want to read.
Dave - The Confessions Guy
James Schramko 08.22.08 at 3:58 am
Great topic Jack!
I get lots of spammers hitting my blog comments because I leave the follow on, however my friends comment because they want to get the link love.
When that software came out to find blogs mine got belted. (Still do).
I publish any comments that are not spam and I never check to see when I make comments on blogs like yours. People waste such a lot of time trying to be clever when they could just spread a wider net.
It is not about the links for SEO, it is about links for people to come and visit because they like your comments and want to socialize! The extra traffic and visits will help your site get noticed.
The SEO part takes care of itself.
Regards
James
Warner Carter 08.22.08 at 10:50 am
In all the rush to build links sometimes it is easy to forget blogging is a conversation. Writing for readers. Commenting to be part of the community. How many top bloggers have said they get the most traffic from people wanting to hear what they say?
Warner Carters last blog post..Free Internet Marketing Ebooks That Make You Money
John Sullivan 08.23.08 at 3:20 pm
Hey Jack
I just left you a sweet review on stumble in reference to my comment on that excellent interview with Heather.I could of been more positive;)
As far as do follow and the fact that I’m on the front page of google 2x’s I will just say that I got involved not for the comment,links or seo benefit etc.
I was falsely lead to believe that I would be opening myself up to all these cool people that would be active with each other and it would be a love feast.
Nothing could be further from the truth. I found the main bloggers involved to be just as selfish and self centered as the rest. I even put a huge banner on my ustream channel for a guy who runs a dofollow directory. Told him about it and didn’t hear BOO. Well that’s all good. I was prowling around your blog and come to find out I had a wrong impression about you and your information. I find that your topics are right on point and that your not just some sales guru. I was getting the emails over the last few months. This just shows you that we can be wrong and wrong often in the Blogging world.
I keep comments do follow and open and now look it as a place to connect with people and I often HOOK up people that comment on my blog with some serious do follow backlinks but I don’t tell them. To me this system had worked very well. Basically I look at it as “pure juice”. I never get negative feedback or comments that aren’t related to the post.So all is well.I’m going to sign up for the affiliate program and taking a closer more accurate look at your work
Thanks
John S
John Sullivans last blog post..I like Obama but he’s an idiot on this one
Jack Humphrey 08.23.08 at 6:36 pm
Thanks John! I figured I’d get through to you someday.
Now about this Obama bashing…
Alexander - social media news 08.24.08 at 7:44 pm
This is a good post and long overdue. There is much empirical evidence showing Google does indeed follow the link and index the pointed to page, and also it bears power in the rankings.
Michelle Macphearson did a test on a new domain and only commenting on nofollow blogs and got onto the 1st page of SERPS.
Granted it was a lower comp term but the results remain.
Getting everyone off the nofollow bandwagon is an uphill battle. So you can take advantage of it by turning on dofollow so the guys looking for blogs to comment on will find and comment on yours. Less competing blogs mean more comments for you.
Eran Malloch - Google AdWords Management Services 08.24.08 at 9:18 pm
Hi Jack,
Spot on observation!
I too have been guilty of only posting on nofollow blogs, but eventually it sunk home that IF your comment adds value, you’ll get visitors to your blog anyway - from those who read your post and are interested to know more about you and your viewpoint.
I have earned thousands of dollars in consulting fees over time, just for commenting on forums and blogs, so at the end of the day, it’s the moolah that interests me WAYYYY more than the link, so I’m happy to continue commenting, regardless of the follow/no-follow situation.
I can see why Google introduced nofollow (blog spam is unavoidable these days), but everyone has gotten their knickers in a knot over it! Time to take a step back and go back to basics.
Thanks for your great post. As always
Eran
Eran Malloch - Google AdWords Management Servicess last blog post..7 Ways To Make Money With Your Blog (Free Video)
Tom At The Home Business Archive 08.24.08 at 11:24 pm
Good information.All it really takes is to comment on relevant blogs to yours that offer useful information and not care about if it is “no follow”.If you make the effort of making a really good comment, people will come to your site anyway.Bloggers should make a habit of making at least 5 good comments on blogs per day.This adds up really quickly.
Tom At The Home Business Archives last blog post..How To Write Emails That Get Read And Make Sales
Stephen Baugh 08.25.08 at 5:20 am
Isn’t blogging meant to be about “the conversation”, if you aren’t commenting with the desire to add to conversation on someone else’s blog then you are damaging their blog and your reputation at the same time.
The back link might be the reward, but legitimate conversation must come first
Ian Orford 08.25.08 at 6:36 am
Jack, let me just give you my thoughts as a member of Social Power Linking. We run a niche Technology Blog and we comment everywhere we can. Particular when we know we can help people make the proper choices with a purchase.
Getting involved in conversations has had an amazing effect on our traffic.
We now have inbound links from Gizmodo, Slashgear, notebookreviews.com and the top forum in our niche. These are huge sites, some of which are now referring to US as the Authority!
Thats all happened in 6 months, just because we ‘engage’ in conversations!
And the conversations have started to really kick in on our site as well.
And we have never bothered about no follow or follow. We just get involved in conversations as much as we can.
Cheers, Ian Orford - Editor, ThinkPadToday.com
Ian Orfords last blog post..Thinkpad SL300, the Ultraportable Bargain of the Year?
Chris Lang 08.25.08 at 2:31 pm
One tactic that I employ is when major blogs refuse to pick up your article, especially when it is breaking news, you can comment on blogs to break the news yourself.
If you do this very prudently and tactfully you can make contact with the decision makers on blogs that do not offer contact information of the blogger.
Done wrong, this can label you as a spammer. If you can find major blogs with quickie articles (like copied and pasted from a press release) on a subject of breaking news you can add a comment that at times is better than the blog post.
You may even get picked up by the blog to produce a better article or at least a link in a follow up post.
Chris Langs last blog post..Google Reader Interview With Chris Lang
Chris Lang 08.25.08 at 3:18 pm
Oh yeah, here is my most important and most overlooked article, the Google FriendRank algorithm. Here Google tells us that they have an algorithm that can be used to overlook nofollow.
http://www.keywebdata.com/?p=128
Chris Langs last blog post..Google Reader Interview With Chris Lang
John Martel 08.25.08 at 6:17 pm
I guess NoFollow was designed to prevent spam, but it sure isn’t doing much good! Then again, I’ve seen plenty of times where Google doesn’t even seem to abide by it, and they invented it! So I could certainly care less if a comment is no follow, or do follow.
If you comment adds to the discussion, post it. Period.
But even if you don’t believe all the logic and don’t want to “waste your time” commenting on nofollow blogs, why are you looking at the source code? Use a real web browser like Firefox and have it highlight the nofollow links for you. I forget which method I used, but just hit the big G with something like : highlight nofollow Firefox.
Truly nofollow or not, it seems to help to focus the PR on my sites, so I still like to see/use it sometimes on sites, but not blogs…. and to sort of laugh at all the blogs that insist on using it.
John Martels last blog post..Your Prosperity Paradigm - Do You Qualify?
Scott Hendison 08.25.08 at 7:54 pm
Great post, but how sincere are you really? I’ve never not commented on a good post because the default nofollows were on, however, I have been more inclined to post if I notice that the blog does have a dofollow plugin (like yours), and also might be using Comment Luv (also like yours).
While I agree that there can be a lot of value in commenting on default nofollowed blogs that have traffic, there’s still something to be said for good old fashioned link juice as an enticement to get people to comment… and I presume that’s why you’ve still left it in place here…
alexander-social media guy 08.26.08 at 7:02 am
the firefox plugin John refers to is called Search Status. I use it also and is very handy. But the core issue remains whether it’s nofollow or not Google does check out where the link goes and seems to arbitrarily decide whether to count the link or not.
Ian, the tech guy has seen good results from his comments in nofollow areas. And Chris Lang I’ve talked to on the phone many times and he knows this stuff inside and out.
P.S. Do what Jack Humphrey recommends and get the dofollow plugin onto your blog. You can ‘corner’ the market for comments in your niche by being one of the ‘Last Blogs Standing’ which allows dofollow comments.
Remember your posts are moving off your homepage pretty soon anyway. The increased content you get from your reader’s comments will far outweigh and page rank bleed off.
Justin Wright 08.27.08 at 10:16 am
I agree that it is not a good practice to only look for DoFollow blogs. Any blog can help promote traffic, regardless of the link. However, I wish more blogs would adopt the DoFollow policy.
Justin Wrights last blog post..A Drive Along The Apache Trail
Chris Lang 08.28.08 at 7:58 am
Jack, I got you on this one! I figured out why blog comments with nofollow now carry weight. Have you figured it out yet? Hint: It’s not what you think…
Martin Malden 08.28.08 at 7:30 pm
Hey, Jack,
Great rant..!
I have to admit that I don’t comment as much as I should, but that had nothing to do with the no follow issue - it was purely my lack of organisation.
However, the point you make about commenting for SEO being the wrong focus exactly mirrors the principle of ‘write for your readers, not the search engines’.
At the end of the day I want real people who like reading what I write to bookmark me and keep coming back.
I was in Bangkok last week helping to set up a new site for a company there and there were 3 of us discussing how to do the SEO for this site. Apart from all the basic on-site stuff that we know we need to do, we all 3 agreed that the best thing we could do would be to fill the site with as much good content as we possibly could. And I mean PACK the site with content.
The search engines are getting smart enough to find the good sites without all the SEO tricks that have been used previously.
Cheers,
Martin.
Martin Maldens last blog post..6 Ways To Establish Trust
John Samarin 08.28.08 at 8:11 pm
Just found your blog…excellent points. Although, if the nofollow keeps out the spammers and those just dropping comments for links…that is a good thing and improves the quality of people that stick around and it increases the value.
Nofollow keeps out the spammers from my experience. I’ve subscribed to your blog and look forward to participating as I follow in my Google reader.
Jack Humphrey 08.29.08 at 5:38 am
@John,
I have about 1600 spams in my Akismet right now - I don’t think that kind of spamming gives a hoot about follow/nofollow. The other spam, where people write “great post!” and nothing else, really isn’t that bad around here at least.
Alexander - social media news 08.29.08 at 7:16 am
@Chris Lang I bought a copy of your book over the weekend and didn’t see the thing about blog comments carrying weight.
Is it in your book?
I would definitely like an answer to this great debate. Of course, I have been commenting on blogs and such because I’ve seen various evidence showing it does help your google ranking whether it’s nofollow or not. And it just gets people to your site which is the main reason to do so anyway.
I’ve set up a Facebook group about Google Social Marketing and maybe you and Jack could contribute to the discussion there.
http://www.new.facebook.com/group.php?gid=24443448087
Of course, anyone else who wants to weigh in on this can.
Chris Lang 08.29.08 at 9:05 am
Jack,
You already know this but for the less WordPress skilled, here is why comment spam exists and their goal.
In WordPress, the default setting is this: Get approved on your first or any comment and then you will be OK’d by default for all future comments. Once they get you to mistakenly OK one, then the rest appear without challenge.
Also, NEVER click a link in that spam crap. Most are coded with malicious JavaScript that will destroy your machine.
DoFollow blogs are the few that require approval every time and if that is handled with diligence by the blog owner then that only improves the blog. If getting a short lived link is attractive, then being approved for addition to a relevant conversation is even better.
I have made most of my reputation in comments on blogs, whatever that reputation might be.
I do have to say Jack, yours is one of the few blogs that carry on a decent thread. Not to mention my contributions really help things too….
In my prior comment I mentioned that I figured out why NoFollow is followed at times. I don’t want to explain why here so as not to tip off the spammers, but Michelle MacPhearson is totally wrong! True there is a way around nofollow in comments but it is not Google deciding to bypass NoFollow.
NoFollow still applies and Google still observes it.
Also, the link from a comment ages just like a blog post and only has weight while the post is above the fold in Blogsearch. If blog post does not pull social links and other blog links then it will sink via age. Hence the comments made sink with it.
I have always said that Digg weighs comments there heavily into the algorithm and Google does the same on blog posts. Many say I am full of crap on the comment thing but they said that when I wrote that Google could see how many Diggs a post got and that Google would buy Digg.
Chris Lang 08.30.08 at 12:47 pm
Hey Jack,
I looked up the Michelle MacPhearson test of the nofollow use in comments and it is totally flawed and should not be used for reference. Just wanted to let you know.
Chris Langs last blog post..Does Google Give Any Weight to NoFollow and MacPherason’s Test is Flawed.
alexander alaric 09.01.08 at 7:11 am
This thread has gotten huge. THat’s some interesting nofollow and the ramifications of it.
I’ll be interested to learn how NoFollow is followed at times as you say. Very interesting to see if there’s a backdoor around what most people consider the ‘dreaded’ NoFollow links.
I am at best an seo intermediate skilled guy and there seems to be much conflicting info about what exactly NoFollow means and does.
Chris Lang 09.02.08 at 7:51 am
Alexander,
No one really knows what Google is really doing. In fact I am taking a day off from my birthday week just to write about some of the new things.
At the same time, trying to figure out Google in the never ending game of “Chase Your Tale” will cost you.
However, what Google is doing right now is probably the what will be called Web 4.0 and the most revolutionary developments in the Internet since Google destroyed all the competition 5 years ago.
First of all Google is breaking most SEO software to hide what is coming and of course I believe that is the new Google social platform. I contacted my SEO top dogs and they told me, that yes, Google is breaking most tracking software and has SEO developers pulling their hair out.
Keep your eyes open, this is going to blow you away.
Endy 09.05.08 at 12:59 am
yup,I agree that this is not a good practice, only after DoFollow Blogs. Everyone can contribute to your blog, transport, whatever the link. But I want more, adoption blogs DoFollow policy.
Endys last blog post..Sony Vaio laptop massive recall
Self Improvement 09.08.08 at 7:14 am
Man, can’t tell you how happy I was to come across you post here. I could not agree more! Follow, no follow, page rank, smage rank… just do what you do already. Please!
Thank you.
Self Improvements last blog post..Clickbank Earnings With Screen Shot Proof?
andrew goulding 09.10.08 at 7:30 pm
It’s pretty obvious when someone is commenting just to get an SEO boost.
I generally don’t just devalue their comments, though. More importantly, I frequently follow the link, visit their site and make a mental note of who was responsible. Then I never forgive! (LOL)
ADG
andrew gouldings last blog post..Xango Mangosteen Juice Tips: #8 Keep It In The Fridge
alexander-socail media guy 09.11.08 at 1:56 pm
Andrew,
That’s pretty funny…never forgive. Many times even if they are wanting an seo boost the comment still has merit.
I look at it on a case-by-case basis to determine the value of the content and then how greatly I want to punish the commenting offender.
alexander-socail media guys last blog post..30DC - Thirty Day Challenge Internet Marketing Recap
Eran Malloch - No B.S. Search Engine Marketing blog 09.11.08 at 9:49 pm
Hey, just a follow-up comment to this post Jack.
I took your advice and made a post on a nofollow forum and within a week I received an email asking for (paid) consulting help from the person who had initially asked for help!
So, it DOES work!
Forget follow/nofollow and just ADD VALUE with your comments/posts.
Eran
Eran Malloch - No B.S. Search Engine Marketing blogs last blog post..5 Top AdWords Landing Page Tips
My New Daycare 10.23.08 at 9:27 am
This really puts things in perspective for me and makes a lot of sense. My new mantra while looking at myself in the mirror will be “I will not worry about Google any longer!”